Cymatic Trader Community

[mikecaseybet]

Hi Gavin....

I'm gobsmacked you took the trouble to answer so quickly, unfortunately I'm still confused.....

If from the example numbers I provided it tells me that increasing the default by 50% improved things but doubling them made no further difference, are you saying that those numbers are what I should stick with ?

Because the tutorial mentions that "typical" UK speeds are 50-200ms - much FASTER than I'm getting, yet I have a much faster than AVERAGE UK connection speed.....

I'm really sorry to be a nuisance again, I'm clearly missing something or just stupid....

Many thanx again....
Mike

[Gavin]

Hi Mike,

Yes it sounds like you may have found the optimum roundtrip speed achievable for your internet route to Betfair, but it does sound rather slow considering that you are in the UK. To make double sure, change the refresh intervals to the very large ones mentioned in the tutorial (circa 3500). Then see if your average duration improves. Generally it is best to start with very big intervals that work for everyone, then work backwards to find your optimal settings.

Having a fast fibre-optic broadband doesn't really ensure a good roundtrip speed, because what really matters is the route that your traffic takes to Betfair. For example, your ISP might not have local interconnects that enable the traffic to take a short route to Betfair, it could be sending the traffic via another ISP that sends all traffic via somewhere in Europe before heading back to Betfair. You can look at the route the traffic takes:

1) Open a command prompt window (hit the windows menu button, then type 'command prompt' in the windows search and choose it from there)
2) Type the following command at the prompt and hit enter:
tracert api.betfair.com

You will then see a number of rows, each one being a hop from one router to another as the traffic passes through the internet.
It will show you if there are particular routers that are slow (congestion / malfunction, etc) or timeout (an asterisk).
You should expect the last hop to timeout, because Betfair do not respond to tracert/ping requests.
You can also usually see how many hops are needed and also the names often enable you to guess whether they are in Paris, London etc.

Sorry but I can't really give more detailed assistance on diagnosing routing, but I do expect that your slow roundtrips are likely to be internet route related (assuming not just a busy or problematic day at Betfair).

You roundtrips are slowish, but I think they are probably workable for manual trading.

I hope this helps. I am moving these messages to the main thread on roundtrip times.

Best wishes,

Gavin

[Szaku]

Hello Gavin,

I want to set up the quickest possible refreshing. Could You suggest what is the best possible configuration? What should I check first? I assume that internet connection is crucial. Let's say on example set winner in tennis so if I understand well this is secondary market not primary? Do You know maybe what is the delay in tennis on betfair btw?

Kind regards
Szaku

[Gavin]

Hi Szaku,

The in-play delay is shown in yellow (next to the picture of a clock), after the game begins. So you can see what the delay is easily by looking there.

There are no 'recommended' settings really, you should follow the instructions in this thread and in the tutorial on the website, in order to discover the optimal settings for your location and your needs:

http://www.cymatic.co.uk/UserManual/ApiRefresh.aspx

Kind regards,

Gavin

[Kpos]

Yes, sometimes there might be a problem with the route that traffic takes through the internet, for example if an intermediary router is malfunctioning. Chances are that your ISP doesn't own the problem router, so sometimes your ISP might try to specify a different route and thus avoid the problem (if you report it to them). They might also be able to report the problem to the upstream ISP that owns the problem router. Using the tracert command will identify if there is a problem with the internet route. Type it at a command prompt:
tracert api.betfair.com
..

Kind regards,
Gavin

Hi Gavin
Thanks for the great free software.. I'm on day 2 of use and will post to the testimonals soon

I tried the tracert and got some odd results I thought, such as the 2nd step timing out. I've tried it about 6-10 times over the last couple of hours, and always step 2 times out. Would this be an ISP router/connection? Looking at the names, it goes to Dublin-London-Dublin !

My trading did not seem to be affected over the last 2 days.

Thanks
Kpos

[Gavin]

Hi Kpos,

I am not sure what the second hop would be on your route. On mine it seems to be something in my local network, i.e. in my house. So perhaps you have a setting somewhere in a firewall / switch or server PC that prevents tracert / ping responses.

There is a chance that the 2nd hop is not in your house (I am no expert) and if this is the case then it would a probably upstream with your ISP for example. My guess is that it is in your house possibly and might not be something to worry about.

Unfortunately some routes through the internet can be bounced off somewhere else first, when the internet backbone providers don't have more direct interconnect arrangements.

Kind regards,

Gavin

[totschillaci]

Another minor issue, on default settings my round trip duration is too high (it notifies me at bottom of screen). So I use your recommended settings for users outside UK being:

API Refresh tab:
Price Refresh 3000
Complete Price Refresh 4000
Bets Refresh 2500
Traded Volume Refresh 3000

Still, my round trip duration constantly fluctuates between 2 and 5 and occasionally will briefly show a 1. I don't want to set the refresh intervals too far apart as to put me at a disadvantage. I'm in Sydney Australia. Any suggestions?

Cheers

[Gavin]

There is more guidance in this forum section:
http://www.cymatic.co.uk/forum/topic171.html#p673

Still, my round trip duration constantly fluctuates between 2 and 5 and occasionally will briefly show a 1.

This sounds like the total calls per second (not the roundtrip duration), I presume you are referring to the number in the bottom left corner of the main window.
It might be perfectly fine, because the software sends 4 types of refresh calls (the four you mentioned in you post and with separate durations), so naturally it will send all 4 within the same second occassionally.

Please familiarise yourself with the API Monitor tab. When you set the refresh intervals extremely slow, you won't cause a bottleneck, and you will therefore learn what the typical fastest possible roundtrip time is for a call. So for example, you set Prices to 5000ms, then observe the 'Last Duration' and the 'Minimum Duration' columns, so from Australia you might see that your calls typically have a best possible roundtrip of say 600ms (in the Minimum Duration column). So then you know that you must never choose refresh intervals smaller than 600ms because you will always be causing multiple simulataneous calls, before the last call will still be in progress when the next one commences. So if you see 600ms as the typical best possible roundtrip duration, then perhaps choose a refresh interval setting of 1200ms.

Note the difference between these three concepts and don't confuse them:
1) Roundtrip duration = how long a single call takes to get to Betfair and back again with their response
2) Refresh interval = how frequently you send API calls (i.e. the pause between sending the next call)
3) API calls per second = the total number of refresh calls sent in the last second

Kind regards,

Gavin

[totschillaci]

Hi Gavin,

I'm getting the slow roundtrip "yellow strip" message at the bottom of the API tab. However it seems to me as though the software runs fast with my bets being matched quickly and the candlestick chart streaming pretty fast also.

Any tips to speed the roundtrip up like cut some unnecessary processes out would be much appreciated. Thanks for this great FREE piece of software!

cheers

[Gavin]

Hi totschillaci,

I have moved your message to this forum section which already discusses the slow round-trip warning. It is normal to get these messages sometimes, whenever there is a brief moment of congestion in the internet or at the exchange. It is not something to be concerned about, unless you are getting them consistently. It is usually just an occasional warning that is intended to make you aware of the quality of the connection.

There are some fine tunings that you can make to ensure that you are not causing any congestion. You can make changes to the settings and view the effect by studying the API Monitor tab. These suggestions are mentioned in this forum section and also in the user manual here:

http://www.cymatic.co.uk/UserManual/ApiRefresh.aspx

Kind regards,

Gavin