Cymatic Trader Community

[zogark]

Unless you attempt to back and then immediately lay with greening whilst the odds are coming in.

a spreadsheet with that idea was also good


with excel almost everything is possible to do so we must have ideas and put into practice

[pete_i]

Unless you attempt to back and then immediately lay with greening whilst the odds are coming in.

a spreadsheet with that idea was also good


with excel almost everything is possible to do so we must have ideas and put into practice

Yeah, in fact it's probably the only way that might actually work, based upon my own personal experience. When trying to back the winner you literally have about between .05 and 1.5 seconds to decide whether to bet or not. Too late, and those odds go from between 1.1 and 1.2 down to zero and 'TOO LATE!!' as all those final lay bets are hoovered up. Too early and chances are your horse will still win, but 1 in 10 of those will result in a loss as you hadn't noticed the late charge through the field of another horse who's odds at the time were still way above 3 or even 4.

If you're going to try to not back until odds reach 1.05 then chances are you'll be too late almost every time. That means you'll start trying to adjust the system for when to make the back bet to a little earlier and that is when you run into the problems in the previous paragraph. If you're happy to win 1 in 10 races at odds of 1.02 then fine. Just don't expect fortunes from this system.

Don't get me wrong. I love what Gavin has provided for us and I'm already working on a few ideas myself. At first though one of my main uses will be for grabbing data and then analysing that data for any unexpected odds movements that would have taken too long if done by hand, and then putting that information to good use. This is a great tool. The future is bright for all Cymatic Traders alike.

[canuk]

pete_I & zogat
ALL your comments are valid and should be considered, by anyone using this spreadsheet, or any other spreadsheet , or application. This sheet is a learning exercise, for use in training mode. I made it available as a contribution to the forum, for exactly input and comments you provided. Thank you, and continue to provide feedback.

It was never intended to be used unattended, just an aid to implementing user selected parameters, in a manual mode. Pick parameters unique to each and every race, before and/or on the fly.

• ENABLE ONLY at a late stage in any race. (working on an aid for this)
• Set a GAP to 2nd place runner, to further protect your interests. This can be set at any odds that would clearly see a late stage "FrontRunner". Even to a point where you may get little ot no market activity.
• Enter the market ONLY at low odds and price. These can be as low and close to together as you like. Again these can be set so tight as to not get any market activity
• IF the front runner continues with a wide GAP to 2nd place, and is getting settles at higher price is not a problem. So asking for 1.1 and getting 4.1 on a winner is great. The liability is only the stake, unlike LAYing, where the liability can be damaging.
• There is a very big Stop-Loss Button, if the user is monitoring as recommended if you want to escape. As you rightly pointed out the may be difficult to achieve at the very late stages of the market. No attempt was made to incorporate automatic code, for that very reason.

Secondly, it only takes one loss to wipe out any winnings that you may have made in the last 20 odd races. I speak from personal experience here. The reason being that you'll only be getting returns at 1.05 or less generally. Unless you attempt to back and then immediately lay with greening whilst the odds are coming in

.

This is the only area where i differ slightly. A BACK bet that looses is a know liability (your STAKE), and as you said, very late in the race, there is very little you can do to minimize that. With prudence this should NOT wipe out 20 races of winning.

You can modify the "command" col. (BA) with your suggestion from BACK to BACK OFFSET1.
This will significantly reduce the returns of an almost certain winner at odds of 1.1, with a appropriate GAP setting. e.g. $10 BACK @1.1 returns $1.10 $10 BACK OFFSET1 returns $0.10 GREENING even lower $0.09.

Until I find time to finalize R2
Auto re-bet currently has no user toggle. Removal or modification of Cell BI4, will stop it

Thanks Keep the input flowing
canuk

[pete_i]

Hi Canuk,

Thanks for your efforts with this.

Had a go in Demo Mode with your spreadsheet and noticed that it didn't just place one bet, but continued to place bet after bet for the last 20 seconds of the race as they got matched. Is it supposed to do this? Am I supposed to manually 'Disable' the process each time when I feel it is time to do so?

[PantherSports]

Great tool! I really appreciate it. Is it possible to enter the max number of bets placed by this strategy for a single runner in to the excel file and also a filter when to start the trigger betting, for example only start betting after 60 seconds in play. I am no good with excel programming but I am sure it's not to difficult to implement these two settings.

Keep up great work guys!

[canuk]

Pete_i
Glad you using demo mode, this is still a learning phase.
Monitor CELL BB3 and if the Actual gap keeps getting wider and wider (frontRunner) than YOUR PRE-SET GAP let it run and take as much as you can get. The disable button is close by, if you don't want the profits

Panther:
Setting up Pre-Race all the DarkBlue limits is the first step, A wide GAP and low entry Place price can almost make it never trigger. With a very strong PRE-RACE favorite with a wide gap, only ENABLE well into the race.

I am working on other options, (among other projects) max-bets, max-liabilty, race-duration info, enable based on time, and a few other improvements. Your input and suggestions are most helpful to push me along that path.

Thanks canuk

[pete_i]

Pete_i
Glad you using demo mode, this is still a learning phase.
Monitor CELL BB3 and if the Actual gap keeps getting wider and wider (frontRunner) than YOUR PRE-SET GAP let it run and take as much as you can get. The disable button is close by, if you don't want the profits

If only things were that easy.

Panther:
Setting up Pre-Race all the DarkBlue limits is the first step, A wide GAP and low entry Place price can almost make it never trigger. With a very strong PRE-RACE favorite with a wide gap, only ENABLE well into the race.

All well and good if you know how far you are into the race. Tv feeds can be seconds behind, which is an extreme disadvantage and not all races are run at the same pace, especially the longer ones. Despite that I've included here a rough estimate of race times for distances that I have compiled over the months. Bear in mind they're only rough estimates because of pace. Plus each distance also varies according to the track it is being run on.

Distance Total Time
5f Flat 1:00
6f Flat 1:12
7f flat 1:24
1m flat 1:40
1m 1f flat 1:55
1m 2f flat 2:08
1m 3f flat 2:20
1m 4f Flat 2:34
1m 5f Flat 2:55
1m 6f Flat 3:10
2m flat 3:35
2m 2f Flat 4:10

------------------------------------
2m 3:50
2m 1f 4:20
2m 2f 4:40
2m 3f 4:48
2m 4f 4:55
2m 5f 5:20
2m 6f 5:30
2m 7f 5:45
3m 6:00
3m 2f 6:30

I am working on other options, (among other projects) max-bets, max-liabilty, race-duration info, enable based on time, and a few other improvements. Your input and suggestions are most helpful to push me along that path.

Thanks canuk

[zogark]

I continue testing the spreadsheet eheheh

in 20 races that bet won 18 and I lost in 2 lol the earnings not covered losses lol

it is unfortunate that there is not there any function to minimize losses

[pete_i]

Thanks cym27:

The advise is appreciated, and will keep it in mind for the future.
As I replied in my previous message to zodark, I gave it little importance in this particular sheet, as GREENING was a bad idea, in this spreadsheet, if used as i intended (very late low odds entry).

If others want to take this basic sheet and adapt it to accomplish different things, that is great. I am looking forward to many great & different ideas, for the use of this great tool, Gavin has provided.

It will make more importance in a future spreadsheet of a "trading" nature...... Thanks

I was actually trying to slow it down between calls to the market. At volatile times in the market, it often takes a few green requests to get it close to green. I found code for seconds, but NOT milliseconds, so was trying "for-next" loops to waste time, between calls to the market. That is why I put the caveat in the INFO sheet, regarding that button call to the code.

Thanks again
canuk

Was looking at the possibility of 'Greening Up' automatically using excel if things start to go against you, but can't find anywhere that says this is even possible. Any ideas, or is the only option to press the big button labelled 'CANCEL ALL GREEN ALL DISABLE'. Considering that at this stage in the race, when things can change quite rapidly, an automatic 'GET OUT NOW' would be much quicker than anything a human can do.

[canuk]

Hi Pete

Update almost ready, .... I need to update INFO page, with usage information.
It will include most of what you seek.

canuk