Lay The Field Spreadsheet

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Re: Lay The Field Spreadsheet

Postby Cym27 » Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:19 am

I was testing the Lay The Field spreadsheet yesterday in Demo mode and came across the following situation a couple of times:

In the following photo, the horse on row 9 had been favourite, dropped below 2 in the odds and was therefore laid. Then the horse on row 8 took over favouritism, dropped below 2 (1.99) in the odds, but failed to trigger a LAY bet.

Image

Later, the horse on row 8 again fell below 2 in the betting and triggered the LAY bet (so obviously the Command formula was working). The screenshot was taken after the price had risen again above 2.

Image

The horse on row 8 continued to rise in the odds and eventually lost the race. Therefore the Lay bet on it failed to get matched and my only matched lay bet lost. If the initial fall in the odds of the horse on row 8 had triggered the LAY bet, it would have got matched the second time the odds fell below 2.

Image

I thought this might have been a connection issue, but then surely Excel should still have issued the LAY command? I have increased the number of horses covered down to row 40 and added the "Stop at" formula suggested in another post. Confused.
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Re: Lay The Field Spreadsheet

Postby Gavin » Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:21 am

Hi Otto,

Please check that you have selected the option to 'enable trigger commands' in the window that pops up when you are about to connect to Excel.

To load the autopilot you must click the button in the tools section. This brings up a window for selecting the autopilot criteria. The autopilot works for all users in all countries. It only selects UK and Irish races. Please check the date range that you selected.

Kind regards,
Gavin
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Re: Lay The Field Spreadsheet

Postby adenlark » Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:57 am

Hi Cym27 and Gavin

I wonder if this is just a side effect of the dynamic nature of Excel calculations? I've seen the same situation several times, where a Lay bet appears then disappears in the command column. I believe this is due to the API refresh rate, and the way Excel calculates formula, rather than a problem with the formulas used. For example, let's say the favourite horse drops below 2.00 and Excel populates the command column with LAY. 500ms later, the odds drift, and the command cell now reads "Watching prices". If the refresh rate is set to the default 800ms, then the opportunity to lay this horse will appear then disappear before Cymatic refreshes and submits the order to Betfair. I'm aware that some traders and bots use refresh rates as low as 200ms, which helps explain why we miss these opportunities to lay.

That's my theory based on limited observation.

Cheers and happy trading

Edit: Responded to wrong post. Apologies to Otto and thanks to Cym for notifying me.
Last edited by adenlark on Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lay The Field Spreadsheet

Postby Cym27 » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:48 pm

Hi adenlark.

Your reply seems to be in relation to my problem rather than Otto's. If so, can Cymatic's refresh rate be increased without falling foul of Betfair's usage rules?
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Re: Lay The Field Spreadsheet

Postby adenlark » Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:16 pm

Hi Cym27

Cym27 wrote:Your reply seems to be in relation to my problem rather than Otto's.


You are absolutely right, bit of a brain fart there! I'll edit my post.

I believe Betfair changed data usage limits when they introduced the new API last year. I thought there was a related post on this forum somewhere, but can't find it with a quick search. If you request too much data - running multiple instances of Cymatic (with multiple Betfair accounts), or having multiple markets open - then the API will return an error message. If you are just using one instance of Cymatic, even at a fast refresh rate, you should be well under the data limits set by Betfair. I'll leave it to Gavin to confirm or correct me on that information, as I'm only quoting what I know from other forums.

Cheers

adenlark
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Re: Lay The Field Spreadsheet

Postby Cym27 » Wed Jul 22, 2015 5:26 pm

Thanks, adenlark. That sounds a likely answer.
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Re: Lay The Field Spreadsheet

Postby Gavin » Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:36 pm

Cym27 wrote:I was testing the Lay The Field spreadsheet yesterday in Demo mode and came across the following situation a couple of times:

In the following photo, the horse on row 9 had been favourite, dropped below 2 in the odds and was therefore laid. Then the horse on row 8 took over favouritism, dropped below 2 (1.99) in the odds, but failed to trigger a LAY bet.
...


Hi Cym27,

The formula monitors the best available price to lay, not the last traded price. So it is possible that the last trade was at the back price, if the market was 1.99 to back, 2.00 to lay. This would not have triggered a bet because the lay price was not below 2.00. I wonder if this explains that situation that you saw.

Some users may prefer using the last traded price rather than the best available price. I think I might be more inclined to use the best available price for this strategy, but it is just a personal preference. You can change the formula if you prefer.

Kind regards,

Gavin
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Re: Lay The Field Spreadsheet

Postby Gavin » Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:41 pm

adenlark wrote:Hi Cym27 and Gavin

I wonder if this is just a side effect of the dynamic nature of Excel calculations? I've seen the same situation several times, where a Lay bet appears then disappears in the command column. I believe this is due to the API refresh rate, and the way Excel calculates formula, rather than a problem with the formulas used. For example, let's say the favourite horse drops below 2.00 and Excel populates the command column with LAY. 500ms later, the odds drift, and the command cell now reads "Watching prices". If the refresh rate is set to the default 800ms, then the opportunity to lay this horse will appear then disappear before Cymatic refreshes and submits the order to Betfair. I'm aware that some traders and bots use refresh rates as low as 200ms, which helps explain why we miss these opportunities to lay.

That's my theory based on limited observation.

Cheers and happy trading

Edit: Responded to wrong post. Apologies to Otto and thanks to Cym for notifying me.


Hi adenlark,

Actually Cymatic will detect the trigger appearing in the spreadsheet as soon as it appears (however briefly). It is not the next refresh at which that trigger is read. The trigger appearing will instantly cause a bet to be sent. It doesn't matter if the trigger disappears shortly afterwards, Cymatic will have detected it during the moment that it appeared and will send the bet.

Kind regards,

Gavin
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Re: Lay The Field Spreadsheet

Postby adenlark » Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:49 pm

Hi Gavin

Thanks for clearing that up. I missed something really obvious in my response to Cym27 - the in-play delay. Is this simulated in Demo mode? I'm assuming so. I notice that Cym27 is also using £1 stakes, which would cause further delays as Cymatic has to bend the £2 minimum bet rule. This may be irrelevant to the discussion, but worth bearing in mind when using small stakes and/or real money.

Cheers
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Re: Lay The Field Spreadsheet

Postby Gavin » Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:04 pm

Hi Adenlark,

Yes the in-play delay is simulated in demo mode.

Kind regards,

Gavin
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