Cymatic Trader Community

[Gavin]

Hi Rob,

Regarding insufficient funds, please note what was said in the other conversation that I mentioned:

...However, the insufficient funds message is also appearing. Are you trying to send multiple bets of less than the minimum stake enforced by Betfair? If so the remember that you'll need to have funds to cover at least the total number of bets as if they were placed using the minimum stake because of the way very small bets are submitted to bypass the minimum bet rules.

This means that you need quite a lot more than just a minimum stake or two in the account.

...Thanks for the advice, bets are fired a couple of minutes before the off on UK horse races, also the take SP command is not always followed.

Betfair don't allow lay bets to take the SP if the liability would be less than £10, instead Betfair simply cancels the bet:
https://en-betfair.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/437/~/exchange%3A-can-i-request-to-%E2%80%98take-sp%E2%80%99-on-an-unmatched-lay-bet-if-my-liability-is

Kind regards,

Gavin

[Bedouin]

Hi Gavin

Not sure we're getting anywhere here...

So i've seen this happen with an odds on favourite, only one bet in any market and £60 in my account so i'm assuming the liability is covered (and i'm not seeing insufficient funds error either).

I'm not seeing my bets cancelled at the off just sometimes not seeing the offset fired, nor the backup take sp happening and occassionally the green all not working

Rob

[Gavin]

Hi Rob,

What was the contents of the Status Log when that exact situation occurred? That tab is like a log that helps me understand what might be going on under the hood. So for each moment that you think something hasn't worked, I really need you to need to view the status log to look for the errors. I'd also like you to become familiar with the Managed Bets tab, because that might well help illuminate things.

The managed bets tab keeps a copy of your order if it contains instructions to use offsets, stop losses and/or fill or kill (the features of a bet that are 'managed' by the software). One row will represent the initial bet and show which managed features you have applied to it. So when that initial bet gets matched, the offset bet should be triggered by the software reading the managed bet information and knowing that it should sends the offset bet (or do a stop loss).

So by being aware of the managed bets tab, you can see whether Cymatic has become aware that the initial bet was matched, because it would have triggered the offset and then deleted that line from the managed bets tab (unless it is still managing a stop loss for it too).

So because you are also using a stop loss, I think there will continue to be an entry in the managed bets tab until either the stop loss is triggered or the offset bet is matched. In other words, once the managed bet instructions are all done, the row gets deleted in the managed bets tab.

Anyway, please just try to consider the managed bets tab, because it might shed some light on what actions Cymatic is taking. It would be interesting to know if Cymatic is not being told by Betfair that the initial bet was matched (and hence it can't triggered the managed bet features), or whether Cymatic is being told that the bet was matched and is then trying to send the offset bet but the bet submission is failing.

So I think that the key to getting further ahead with understanding the problem, is all about making sure you are noticing what is happening in both the Status log and Managed Bets tabs, when problems arise. There should be information available there to help us.

Sorry that this is taking some time to figure out.

Kind regards,

Gavin

[Bedouin]

Hi Gavin

Thanks for the more detailed info.

Checked both Managed bets (there were none), and also the Status Log:

2019-11-05 14:10:24.536 Streaming API - connection Id = 203-051119141021-644753, connection status = SUBSCRIBED
2019-11-05 14:10:24.536 Streaming API - connection Id = 203-051119141021-644753, connection status = AUTHENTICATED
2019-11-05 14:10:24.535 Streaming API - connection Id = 203-051119141021-644753, connection status = CONNECTED
2019-11-05 14:10:21.549 xxxx logged in.

Can't see any issues here?

Rob

[Gavin]

Hi Rob,

That is correct, no issues are shown there unfortunately.

1. So the problem happened less than an hour or so, after you logged in and started betting?

2. It happened on some bets, but not all bets?

3. Are you saying that there was nothing in the managed bets tab after the initial bet was matched?

4. What about before each initial bet is matched, can you just send a couple of simply bets using the exact same command in Excel and check that they are getting into the managed bets tab (then cancel the unwanted bet before it gets matched) please?

5. Roughly what price are the bets typical sent at?

6. What kind of event was it? UK horse racing?

7. Which country are you in?

Kind regards,

Gavin

[Bedouin]

Hi Gavin,

1 - That's correct it was the first bet of the day that I had no offset go into the market
2 - Again correct happens on some but not all bets
3 - Yes managed bet tab was empty despite the missing offset (using the command "BACK TAKE-SP OFFSET2 STOPLOSS4 GREEN FILLORKILL20")
4 - Sorry not sure what you mean
5 - Trading the favourite - in the race i posted it was matched at 4.0
6 - UK Horse racing but trialed with the greyhounds today, completely new excel sheet just using a back offset1 and again a number of the offsets were not sent to the market.
7 - I'm in the UK

Rgds

Rob

[Gavin]

Hi Rob,

Just noticed that you are using FILLORKILL20. i wonder if that is affecting it. We will need to check. Can you try without FILLORKILL? I will also try to do some tests.

Kind regards,

Gavin

[Bedouin]

Hi Gavin


"6 - UK Horse racing but trialed with the greyhounds today, completely new excel sheet just using a "back offset1" and again a number of the offsets were not sent to the market.

[Gavin]

OK, that rules out fillorkill then.

Regarding points 4 and 6, I just need to you to tell me if there are any entries in the managed bets tab, by checking before the initial bet is matched and also after the initial bet it matched.

Are the initial bets matched instantly at the front price, or are you sending them at a price where they don't get matched straight away?

Thanks,

Gavin

[Bedouin]

Hi Gavin

Did some further tests today:

With the bets not getting matched straight away had about a 50% failure rate - bets showing in the exchange tab / working bets section but nothing showing in the managed bets(fillorkill also failed). Without the fillorkill 100% showed up in the managed bets.

So went on to test without the fillkill and on the first bet the green command failed and on the second bet (in the same race) the rest of the instructions failed completely.

Also - noticed it was taking about 5 seconds to get see anything appear in the status columns when i was trialing just the offset in a new sheet, added a =now() to time how long it actually was and this delay disappeared... not sure if this helps??

Rob