Cymatic Trader Community

[72_square]

Is there a maximum number that the offset command allows? I'm basically placing a lay bet prior to the off and then using offset and stoploss to maximise profit or minimise losses. Ideally I want the lay bet to offset to near odds of 1000 to get most of my lay stake back if I win (horse loses). hence I'm looking at an offset number of 100+ for odds below 20 to begin with.

Only just started to place bets using my excel program and it seems a bit hit and miss as to what offset number it accepts. If i do not successfully get an offset command, it does not give me a stop loss either.

[72_square]

Ok, just did a live race and had three horses at lay bets of 5.1, 5.2, 5.7. The command line was:
LAY KEEP OFFSET90 STOPLOSS23 PLACEAT2 GREEN FILLORKILL10 with a slight variation on the stoploss between the bets

The 5.1 and 5.7 bets came up with the offset, but the 5.2 bet did not.

Any ideas on that one?

[Gavin]

There is no maximum offset number of ticks, but it has to be a valid price that it equates to. So for example, 500 ticks wouldn't work because there aren't that many price increments between 1.01 and 1000.

Is this demo or real money mode?

What stakes were you using?

Were any of the offsets triggered after the start of the race/game.

[72_square]

Tried in both demo and real money. The example above was real money.
5.1 was £3.57 lay bet
5.2 was £3.57 lay bet
5.7 was £3.19 lay bet

My spreadsheet places the bets between the last 1min and the start of in play. All three bets were literally placed by the software at the same time, as the time kicked under 1min.

[72_square]

Just a thought: would it make a difference if all bets were placed at exactly the same time? Does that confuse the offset command?

Done a few races tonight and keep having similar issues. Would there be anything in my spreadsheet that could possibly cause such a wobble?

[Gavin]

Were the three bets placed on different runners, or all on the same runner in 3 separate moments?

Were all three lay bets matched instantly as soon as they were submitted? If they were matched instantly then the Matched Odds (column BE) and Matched Amount (column BF) would be populated with their values.

If the orders were not matched instantly, then the FILLORKILL10 part of your command may be the culprit. If the order at 5.2 wasn't matched within 10 seconds (for example if price moved up quickly) then the lay order at 5.2 would have been cancelled and therefore its offset order would have been cancelled too.

When an order is submitted with a managed feature (offset or stop loss feature) attached to it, you will see the order in the Managed Bets tab in the main Cymatic window. It will eventually be deleted from that tab, once it has been matched and has no more features being managed. So for example, a bet with an offset (but no stop loss) will be removed from the managed bets list once the offset bet has been submitted. If it also has a stop loss attached to it, then it will stay in the managed bets list until the offset bet is either matched or the stop loss fires.

So if you send a lay bet at 5.2 with offset, stop loss and fill or kill features, there should be an entry in the managed bets list until either :
a) the fill or kill expires, if the lay bet was not matched, or
b) the lay was matched, then the offset fired and then either the offset bet gets matched or triggers as a stop loss.

Kind regards,

Gavin

[72_square]

Gavin

Thank you for your help. In answer to your questions:
1) Yes, bets placed on three separate runners
2) All lay bets and matched straight away

I've been babysitting Cymatic today and watched it run through about 14 horse races. I'm placing lay bets within the last 15 secs before the race starts on anything up to four runners (depending upon if they meet certain criteria). Hence some races I could have one horse and others 3 or 4. Of the races done today, most have worked fine. However, I'm still getting the odd lay bet here and there with no offset/stoploss back bet. Its early days for me at the moment in terms of trying to track down a pattern. All of my bets are normally matched straight away, with fill or kill not coming into play. At this stage the only pattern I can make out is an offset/stoploss back bet failure when the spreadsheet picks only a single horse. This is often in row 10 (third favourite in general). Row 10 bets work fine with multiple horse bets though? Still observing at present to see if this is a consistent issue.

I have pulled a clean spreadsheet and copied my data onto it for a fresh start (first thing this morning). I have cured the offset tick issue by using a lookup table and the 351 ticks available. When the back bet works, its pulling up a back bet of 950, which is what I'm after.

Update - Just done another two races. Single bet in row 11 worked fine with the offset. Another race with two bets on (two horses) failed with the offset/stoploss (row 10 & 11).

At present, I cannot see a clear pattern causing the failures, any further ideas to try?

Regards

[72_square]

Ah, think I might have caught it. I was setting my offset to back at 950. Looking through cancelled bets, there were a few for 990. I suspect the ones not placing the offset/stoploss were tripping over 1000. Not sure why this is happening, but now I've pulled it back to 800 odds, the last 4-5 races have gone through perfectly.

[Gavin]

Ah yes tripping over 1000 would cause the issue.

The ones cancelled at 990 are normal. The software uses 990 as a 'safe price' when it does the special procedure to send back bets of less than the Betfair minimum stake (done in 3 steps: 1. Sends £2 bet at 990, 2. cancels part of it to get the required stake, 3. then moves it to the desired odds).

Kind regards,

Gavin

[meoschmaslam]

thanks for the info