Cymatic Trader Community

[Angelo]

Today I placed a Back bet at odds of 4, and a manual stop loss at odds of 10 for the same amount in the ladder. An orange background had appeared in the cell indicating the stop loss was in effect.

After I placed both the above, I placed a Lay bet at odds of 2 for a higher amount, and it appeared in the right hand column, waiting to be matched.

While in play, the odds went down initially to about 3, and then started to increase. When it touched 10, the stop loss feature should have activated by itself and placed a Lay bet automatically to make the loss to zero (or near zero).

However, it didn't happen.

The odds raised above 10, the orange background just disappeared, and the odds reached 15, 30, 50, etc. and above. The expected stop loss bet was not placed automatically by the software. And the manually placed Lay bet (at odds of 2) was still waiting in the right hand column to be matched.

Because of this, whatever amount was placed as a Back bet, was fully wiped off, resulting in 100% loss of the stake.

This has happened a few times - both in Demo mode and in Live mode.

Some other times, the stop loss feature seems to work ok.

Is there any specific situation the stop loss feature gets triggered in the above scenario?

As a side note, sometimes, a Lay bet which is placed in the ladder appears in the right hand column, waiting to be matched, automatically disappears after some time, and the bet is to be placed for a second time. (If it does not appear in the right hand column, I can assume that the click to place the bet was not proper, but, the bet does indeed appear in the right hand column for some time and automatically disappears.)

And this too has happened a few times.

The stop loss feature, if not working properly, can provide a false sense of security, and can be extremely dangerous. It can wipe out the bank entirely.

Gavin, please share your thoughts on this.

[Angelo]

In continuation of the earlier post, is it possible that the stop loss feature was not activated because of insufficient funds in the account? Indeed, there was very less amount in my account after placing these bets.

But, if so, why didn't it work in the Demo mode - which is independent of the funds in the account?

Again, the insufficient funds reasoning does not explain the side note mentioned above.

Thanks!

[Angelo]

Or, will the stop loss feature be activated only if it gets matched?

Originally, when I activated a stop loss at odds of 10 for the same amount, there was at least an equivalent amount of Back bet. And there were Back bet amounts at higher odds like 15, 30, 50, etc. too.

Is it possible that, as soon as the price started to increase, all these Back bets were withdrawn, without my noticing it?

If so, what can I do to match my stop loss odds match its nearest possible Back bet, as soon as it is activated? This can prevent the entire loss of the stake. Also, will it work only when the account has sufficient amount covering the Lay odds?

I hope answering these questions will clear doubts of other newbies too, like me.

Thanks again!

[Angelo]

Considering that Gavin generally responds to all posts at the earliest, there could be some reason beyond his control that he has not responded for almost 48 hours here.

Till he posts his views, other members who think they have some insights on this, are welcome to share their opinions too.

Thanks!

[Gavin]

Hi Angelo,

Have you watched any of the videos yet? There are a couple that show how to use the stop loss feature:
Cymatic Videos

I am a bit puzzled by what you said. Lay bets should not appear in the right hand column in the ladder (unless you have customised the ladder and swapped the column positions). Your unmatched lay bets should appear in the pink column titled 'Lay Vol', or in the Price column if you have chosen to show your bets in the price column. Likewise when you want to issue a stop loss that would be a lay bet (to limit the loss of an initial back bet), then you would right click in the pink Lay Vol column at the required stop loss price. That cell will then go orange to mark the stop loss location.

A few things might cause the orange stop loss marker to disappear when the market price reaches that level:
1. If the bet is sent but fails due to insufficient funds.
2. If there is no imbalance requiring a stop loss bet (for example, no matched bets, or equal matched back and lays).
3. There is an imbalance, but the bet needed is on the other side of the market. In other words if you put the stop loss in the Back Vol column, instead of the Lay Vol column, then this would not trigger a lay bet if your initial matched bet was a back bet.

My best guess is that number 3. is the thing that you may be confused about. Please use demo mode and watch the videos and ensure that you understand that the stop loss must be on the other colour column, not on the same column as where the matched bet was.

Kind regards,

Gavin

[Angelo]

1.jpg

2.jpg

2.jpg

3.jpg

Hello Gavin,

Thanks for replying, although a little late than usual!

I have watched the videos at least 2 times, but I won't say I have understood them all - I am just learning, and have to explore many features of the software yet.

As you have said correctly regarding ladder customization and swapping column positions, I have indeed changed the polarity. Before trying Cymatic Trader, I had watched a private video where it is shown the polarity is changed, and the bets are placed, and the ladder appears as per the attached screenshots. That is the reason for my saying "I find that I am always using a particular polarity all the time" at topic917.html#p4400 . I am under the assumption that such change of polarity is ONLY for the convenience of placing and monitoring the bets, and I don't really know whether it has any other side-effects.

If it indeed has any other implications other than the above, please correct me, and I will strictly abide by what is shown in the videos; however, since the beginning, I have ALWAYS been utilizing this, and have not faced any problem, and the software has always done what I wanted it to do (except the recent stop loss).

The attached 5 pictures exactly depict my play under the recent stop loss situation, except of course the values of odds and stake money has changed, and in Demo mode.

Could you please look into all the 5 pictures and say the probable reason for the failure? As per your reply, could the ONLY reason be number 1, i.e., due to insufficient funds? But, if so, why didn't it work in the Demo mode - which is independent of the funds in the account?

I believe, as per picture 2, there is no imbalance.... and that other pictures show the reason number 3 does not arise at all because of my changing the polarity.

Also, do you see any specific reason for the situation I have mentioned in the 'side note'? Could it too had an impact on this failure?

Sorry if these are too basic questions, your reply would be helpful for other newbies too, like me.

Thanks for your time.

[Angelo]

5.jpg

4.jpg

Got message, "Cannot add another attachment, 3 is the maximum." So, am attaching the remaining 2 herewith.

[Angelo]

For some reason, the 5 pictures do not appear to be properly displayed on my screen. So, for those who would like to see full-screen pictures, I have shared them here too:

http://prntscr.com/9uxlhz

http://prntscr.com/9uxln1

http://prntscr.com/9uxlrw

http://prntscr.com/9uxlx3

http://prntscr.com/9uxm3v

Thanks!

(Admin, please feel free to delete this post if it is redundant or against any TOS. Thanks.)

[Gavin]

Hi Angelo,

You have not reversed the polarity in the ladders, but you have reversed in in the grid. The ladders have their own polarity setting in the ladder menu, that is not changed when you change the polarity in the grid. You can do either or both, but they are separate settings.

The stop loss has not triggered at the price of 6.00, because the lowest price in the blue column is still less than 6.00. So that stop loss would only be triggered when price reaches 6.00 or above.

The other picture you posted of a ladder with a stake of 10 is confusing. Sorry, I can't see why you posted that picturem. What is the relevance of it and why is the stake changed from 2 to 10?

Kind regards,
Gavin

[Angelo]

Hello Gavin,

Thanks for your reply.

Since I had said 'The attached 5 pictures EXACTLY depict my play under the recent stop loss situation', I thought one would co-relate that with my first post.

OK, I will indicate the steps I had taken here:

(i) First I had changed the Polarity to Reverse in the grid. (As said earlier, I really do not know why exactly I am doing it - just I have been following a private video I came across - thinking it just adds an extra white column on the left most side in the ladder interface, unlike what is seen in your videos.) (Fig http://prntscr.com/9uxlhz)

(ii) Then I placed a Back bet for $2 at odds of 2.76 by left clicking in the blue column in the ladder interface. It was immediately matched and appeared in the bottom at the right hand column. (Fig http://prntscr.com/9uxm3v)

(iii) Then I placed a stop-loss bet for the same amount of $2 at odds of 6, where already $30 Back bets had been placed by other punters, so I need not have to wait for my amount to get matched as and when the stop-loss feature activates when the odds raise. I did this by right-clicking once at odds of 6, and the orange background had appeared in the cell. (Fig http://prntscr.com/9uxln1)

(iii) Next I placed a Lay bet for $10 at odds of 2.02 with PIQ of 1 (Fig http://prntscr.com/9uxlrw). As expected, it waits in the upper side at the right hand column to be matched (Fig http://prntscr.com/9uxlx3). As soon as it gets matched, it will be shifted to the bottom column near my original $2 Back bet.

(iv) Fig http://prntscr.com/9uxm3v shows a final position, all the above combined in a single screen.

My aim is that, my Lay bet of $10 gets matched at odds of 2.02 , AND if it does not get matched because of raising odds, the stop-loss bet of $2 at odds of 6 gets activated, because there is already a (matching?) Back bet of $30 waiting against it.

If my Lay bet of $10 gets matched at odds of 2.02, fine, I can manually cancel the stop-loss bet of $2 at odds of 6 . On the other hand, if the odds raise and goes up and beyond odds of 6, that is fine too, my stop-loss bet would get activated, especially because $30 is already waiting against it. Then I can manually cancel my Lay bet of $10 placed at odds of 2.02 .

My ultimate aim is the last statement above.

However, what had happened is, the odds raised up and beyond odds of 6, to 10, 35, 50, 75, etc, but the stop-loss bet of $2 at odds of 6 was NOT activated, causing the loss of entire Back bet stake of $2 in the above example. The stop loss was not triggered when price reached 6.00 or above. The actual balance in my account at the time of this happening is about, say, $0.75 , which is less than the stop-loss bet of $2 .

If you re-read my all other posts in this thread, in the light of this post, you can get a clearer picture, and guess what had happened, I think.

In the above situation, people may probably manually place the Lay bet of $10 OR place a stop-loss bet of $2 according to the trend in-play. So, is the procedure above correct in the first place, in order to achieve my 'ultimate aim' stated above?

I believe it is so, because it has correctly performed in some occasions both in Demo and in Live mode.

The only reason I can see, as per your post above, is insufficient funds in my account. Can you please re-confirm the reason? But, in that case, why was the stop-loss mode not activated in the Demo mode - which is independent of the funds in the account?

Also, would $2 be sufficient funds in the above scenario? Or would it require at least $10 to meet the minimum funds requirement in the above scenario? I have no way of knowing it beforehand while placing the stop-loss bet.

Thanks for your time.